As followers of Christ, faithful Christians of all stripes must strive for fundamental unity; in today's postmodern West, Christian togetherness is also key to good citizenship.
Using words like Catholic and Apostolic in a statement to promote unity doesn't seem very advisable to me, to be honest. All the same, I do believe in valuing the faith of all Christians, in so far as they are truly loyal to Christ and His Kingdom. We all of us must be discerning in these matters.
Hi David. I know that's what these words mean, as in their technical denotation. However, they also have connotations which can and will put people off. We can complain about it, but that's just the way it is. Like using the word conservative when dealing with liberals/socialists. Not likely to go down well, if we're totally honest.
I get your point, to be sure. Our kids attended a Christian school in the Dallas area. One day, I was asked to lead the children in worship. I did what every good Anglican would do. I trotted out a kid-friendly version of Morning Prayer, which included the use of the Apostles' Creed. Eyes rolled. Some teachers were shocked. Parents concerned. Over six years, I was invited to lead worship exactly once. 🫤
Still, when we planted the church, we were only ten miles from what was then considered the dispensational capital of the world, Dallas Theological Seminary, and we still recited the Nicene Creed every Sunday. But we didn't remove the word catholic. Instead, we placed an asterisk beside it with a simple footnote explaining that catholic means "universal," not "Roman Catholic.
Before his death, our pastor earned the title of Apostle. I understand it to mean a Pastor of Pastors. He traveled to churches around the world to help leadership in America and worldwide.
The messianic churches need to be included as the Body of Christ.
Hi Michelle. I don't claim to know the circumstances under which a person can, or should, be called an apostle. I know that technically it just means someone who is sent. Like a missionary. However, it also has connotations of 'apostolic succession' as insisted upon by the Roman Catholic church, and disputed by a great many others. Which is why one should be careful to use that term in bringing Christians of many denominations together.
Our Pastor had several pastors under him at home for the church he started. After 30 years he was asked by pastors he had visited across America and worldwide to essentially teach them to grow their own churches. He was send by God on these trips and no one questioned why he was chosen given his gift of teaching. I miss him dearly.
Let us begin by accepting the Church is really 'fellowship of believers' in the saving work of the incarnation, life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, Son of God, promised Messiah,
One, holy and apostolic is already shared unity.
As for Apostolic, is it not referring to the body of revelation and doctrine established and passed down after the death of all the original apostles?
The Nicene Creed was not written in English, I do not see why we cannot just simply say what it meant One, holy, universal and apostolic. After all, we are in the vernacular age already.
Using words like Catholic and Apostolic in a statement to promote unity doesn't seem very advisable to me, to be honest. All the same, I do believe in valuing the faith of all Christians, in so far as they are truly loyal to Christ and His Kingdom. We all of us must be discerning in these matters.
But that’s what catholic means. Not Roman Catholic. But ‘small c’ catholic as in universal.
Apostolic might be another word for Missional or ‘of the apostles’.
I think we will need to get used to these words. They’ve been around a long time. 😉
Hi David. I know that's what these words mean, as in their technical denotation. However, they also have connotations which can and will put people off. We can complain about it, but that's just the way it is. Like using the word conservative when dealing with liberals/socialists. Not likely to go down well, if we're totally honest.
I get your point, to be sure. Our kids attended a Christian school in the Dallas area. One day, I was asked to lead the children in worship. I did what every good Anglican would do. I trotted out a kid-friendly version of Morning Prayer, which included the use of the Apostles' Creed. Eyes rolled. Some teachers were shocked. Parents concerned. Over six years, I was invited to lead worship exactly once. 🫤
Still, when we planted the church, we were only ten miles from what was then considered the dispensational capital of the world, Dallas Theological Seminary, and we still recited the Nicene Creed every Sunday. But we didn't remove the word catholic. Instead, we placed an asterisk beside it with a simple footnote explaining that catholic means "universal," not "Roman Catholic.
Blessings!
Blessings to you too, David 🙏🏻
Agree.
Before his death, our pastor earned the title of Apostle. I understand it to mean a Pastor of Pastors. He traveled to churches around the world to help leadership in America and worldwide.
The messianic churches need to be included as the Body of Christ.
Hi Michelle. I don't claim to know the circumstances under which a person can, or should, be called an apostle. I know that technically it just means someone who is sent. Like a missionary. However, it also has connotations of 'apostolic succession' as insisted upon by the Roman Catholic church, and disputed by a great many others. Which is why one should be careful to use that term in bringing Christians of many denominations together.
Our Pastor had several pastors under him at home for the church he started. After 30 years he was asked by pastors he had visited across America and worldwide to essentially teach them to grow their own churches. He was send by God on these trips and no one questioned why he was chosen given his gift of teaching. I miss him dearly.
He sounds like quite a guy.
He was. He went home to see the Lord 6 years ago. Life well lived.
Let us begin by accepting the Church is really 'fellowship of believers' in the saving work of the incarnation, life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, Son of God, promised Messiah,
One, holy and apostolic is already shared unity.
As for Apostolic, is it not referring to the body of revelation and doctrine established and passed down after the death of all the original apostles?
The Nicene Creed was not written in English, I do not see why we cannot just simply say what it meant One, holy, universal and apostolic. After all, we are in the vernacular age already.
The Church has survived empires, fashions, scandals, persecutions, and committees. Committees may yet prove the fiercest trial.