Celibacy was not originally required for Priests. It was mandated by a Pope in the 12th century. Eastern Orthodox priests have always been allowed to marry and have their own children. It has not even remotely diminished their ability to lead their congregation and complete all of the requirements of their role. I understand that this is a very long-held tradition in the Catholic Church which is fine, but wanted to clarify that the original church did not impose this restriction.
Paul made a few errors - mostly driven by his false belief that the end of time was at hand. This comment was one of them. Regardless the comment says nothing about the absurd practice of priestly celibacy (for some). As I said that is just another bit of nonsense doctrine dreamed up by the Papacy.
Elsewhere, in his general guidance to Timothy, Paul had the following to say about imposing celibacy as a rule.
Here, he makes it clear that this is not his personal advice, but a direct divine warning from the Holy Spirit:
"The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.
If you point these things out to the brothers [brethren], you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, nourished on the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed."
1 Timothy 4:1 - 6.
"They forbid people to marry" = a rule of celibacy.
Who will teach this?
"hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron"
So Daisy, I disagree. Celibacy for healthy males is just too hard and unnatural. It makes priests completely out of touch with the work and growth that comes with having a relationship with a woman. It leads to loneliness and a misguided idea of God as an out of touch, removed, limited Being rather than a loving force present in every aspect of this complex multifaceted world.
There is considerable evidence that historically priests did not practice celibacy outside enclosed orders - St Vincent de Paul lamented the numbers of parish priests in France he discovered were living with 'wives' and raising families and their parishioners - often illiterate peasants - had no clue that this was forbidden. Vocation in the past often meant taking the cloth to get food, shelter, warmth and avoid poverty. There are 10,000 adult children of Catholic priests in America today trying to track down their fathers. Priests were known for sleeping with their housekeepers in Ireland. Celibacy never used to mean abstinence which is unnatural and very rare in humans unless they make up the small number who are asexual. It used to mean fidelity within marriage. Priests could easily be celibate by having vasectomies and then the church could allow them to marry and devote themselves to their vocations. The Protestant faiths have not suffered from allowing their priests to marry and a vicar's wife is a hugely important and valued member of the parish. The apostles were married - they were of the Jewish faith and were expected to do so. The women who followed Jesus on his travels were the wives of his apostles and the children Jesus welcomed into his presence were the apostles' children. Celibacy would seem strange and wrong to a Jew and indeed to a Muslim. It is perfectly possible that Jesus was married. The Bible is not a historical document in any real sense - it is a collection of myths.
Jesus never advised anyone not to marry nor did he promote celibacy.
That rule came along 300 years after he died and it was for purely political reasons - nothing spiritual about it at all.
Celibacy has not been what shaped Western civilization; personal faith in Jesus Christ has done that. The Bible itself says, “To the unmarried and widows I say that it is good for them to remain single, as I am. But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. Better to marry than to burn with passion.” (1 Corinthians 7:8-9). Even Peter, the supposed first pope, was married. From the beginning, marriage has been the norm (though celibacy is a valid vocation as well); celibacy needs to be optional. That way, not only would a priest be able to speak empathetically to marital issues, but there would probably be far less sexual deviancy in the priesthood.
Clerical celibacy was not made a rule in the Roman Catholic Church until the First Lateran Council under Pope Calixtus II in AD 1123.
If you want to go back "two thousand years", then consider this from the Apostle Paul, who at the beginning of this passage directly claims the divine inspiration of the Holy Spirit as the source of this warning:
"The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.
If you point these things out to the brothers [brethren], you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, nourished on the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed."
"They forbid people to marry" = a rule of celibacy.
Who will teach this?
"hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron"
Where do they get the idea from?
"deceiving spirits and things taught by demons."
If you are so keen on clerical celibacy as to reject the letters of the Apostle Paul as holy scripture, then you would also need to reject other books of the Bible that endorse Paul as a divinely inspired apostle of Jesus: i.e. Acts (and by extension the Gospel of Luke) and 2 Peter (and by extension1 Peter and the Gospel of Mark).
Being a celibate committed single is just as worthy of a vocation as being married. We currently live in a grossly over-sexualized culture that is incapable of understanding and accepting a person's choice to commit to someone greater than humanity and eschew sexual relations with mere mortals. Daisy is spot on.
Brilliant, thoughtful and sympathetic. Thank you so much, I am a conservative Evangelical Christian and will send this piece to my devoted Catholic friends,
The original example of this was Jesus Himself. You also find celibacy in the Buddhist tradition among nuns and priests. It represents total commitment to faith. The RCC is right to maintain it, even if there are deviations from it. The deviations do not prove it's wrong; just that it's difficult, a test of faith. Though priests I have spoken to said it was not as difficult as the vow of obedience.
Celibacy is a distortion relevant only to the Catholic Church. It's a mistake to make such cases at a site like this. Restoring the West should move away from such extreme creeds. Worse still, it reminds that Jesus renounced his entire family, and had none of his own. Not a good advertisement or an example of conservative family values. The countless children that were abused were desecrated by Catholic priests. Celibacy is profoundly unnatural. The Apostles had families.
Paul was also a bad example, in every respect.
Restoring the West should emphasise universal values the West celebrates, rather than be apologetic for most particular ones that are so controversial and have caused much suffering.
I agree entirely with you, Daisy. Celibacy and a dozen other rules for men were given to men who had to freely choose to be "Alter Christus" and act "In persona Christi" Married Deacons, Teachers and Presbyters, were to be Chaste in that Heirarchy. Jesus the Lord the Christ, his Sinless inviolate Mother were persecuted and rejected from the beginning. Only a very small group of very few folks, "anawaim" poor humble, meek, led by a Jew from Bethlehem ofJudea (Joseph) living in exile incognito in "good for nothing" Nazareth lived daily in that " Heaven on Earth" God intends for all!
Here is this from the Apostle Paul on the appointment of bishops and deacons:
"Whoever aspires to be an overseer [i.e. bishop] desires a noble task. Now the overseer is to be above reproach, faithful to his wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 4 He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him, and he must do so in a manner worthy of full respect.6 He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil. 7 He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil’s trap.
8 In the same way, deacons[b] are to be worthy of respect, sincere, not indulging in much wine, and not pursuing dishonest gain. 9 They must keep hold of the deep truths of the faith with a clear conscience. 10 They must first be tested; and then if there is nothing against them, let them serve as deacons.
11 In the same way, the women [c: i.e. wives: Γυναῖκας] are to be worthy of respect, not malicious talkers but temperate and trustworthy in everything.
12 A deacon must be faithful to his wife [γυναικὸς] and must manage his children and his household well. 13 Those who have served well gain an excellent standing and great assurance in their faith in Christ Jesus."
Yes Thank you. That is "chapter 3" goes with Chapter 1 and 2 about Ministry in the Church Ecclesia Parochia Pastore. After Century 12 we begin to see the call was beyond and more than service- It was always to Imitate Christ- Alter Christus and In Person Christi- " becoming " a Transformed being
Celibacy was not originally required for Priests. It was mandated by a Pope in the 12th century. Eastern Orthodox priests have always been allowed to marry and have their own children. It has not even remotely diminished their ability to lead their congregation and complete all of the requirements of their role. I understand that this is a very long-held tradition in the Catholic Church which is fine, but wanted to clarify that the original church did not impose this restriction.
Eastern Orthodox priests may not marry, though married men may become priests. Once ordained marriage is no longer an option.
That is correct. Men who plan to become priests and also want to get married, must get married before they are ordained.
Celibacy is nonsense. It was invented by the Papacy for its own perverse reasons. It has nothing to do with Christianity whatsoever.
St. Paul disagreed. “Better to marry than to burn with passion” but he said this as a concession, stating before “I wish all people were like me”
Paul made a few errors - mostly driven by his false belief that the end of time was at hand. This comment was one of them. Regardless the comment says nothing about the absurd practice of priestly celibacy (for some). As I said that is just another bit of nonsense doctrine dreamed up by the Papacy.
You are quoting Paul completely out of the relevant context of the crisis situation at the church in Corinth.
When Paul writes “I wish all people were like me”, this is followed by a sentence that he was a widower, who had _chosen_ not to remarry.
Paul then makes a clear distinction between his personal advice and apostolic teaching under divine guidance:
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%207&version=NIV
Elsewhere, in his general guidance to Timothy, Paul had the following to say about imposing celibacy as a rule.
Here, he makes it clear that this is not his personal advice, but a direct divine warning from the Holy Spirit:
"The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.
If you point these things out to the brothers [brethren], you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, nourished on the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed."
1 Timothy 4:1 - 6.
"They forbid people to marry" = a rule of celibacy.
Who will teach this?
"hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron"
Where do they get the idea from?
"deceiving spirits and things taught by demons."
So Daisy, I disagree. Celibacy for healthy males is just too hard and unnatural. It makes priests completely out of touch with the work and growth that comes with having a relationship with a woman. It leads to loneliness and a misguided idea of God as an out of touch, removed, limited Being rather than a loving force present in every aspect of this complex multifaceted world.
There is considerable evidence that historically priests did not practice celibacy outside enclosed orders - St Vincent de Paul lamented the numbers of parish priests in France he discovered were living with 'wives' and raising families and their parishioners - often illiterate peasants - had no clue that this was forbidden. Vocation in the past often meant taking the cloth to get food, shelter, warmth and avoid poverty. There are 10,000 adult children of Catholic priests in America today trying to track down their fathers. Priests were known for sleeping with their housekeepers in Ireland. Celibacy never used to mean abstinence which is unnatural and very rare in humans unless they make up the small number who are asexual. It used to mean fidelity within marriage. Priests could easily be celibate by having vasectomies and then the church could allow them to marry and devote themselves to their vocations. The Protestant faiths have not suffered from allowing their priests to marry and a vicar's wife is a hugely important and valued member of the parish. The apostles were married - they were of the Jewish faith and were expected to do so. The women who followed Jesus on his travels were the wives of his apostles and the children Jesus welcomed into his presence were the apostles' children. Celibacy would seem strange and wrong to a Jew and indeed to a Muslim. It is perfectly possible that Jesus was married. The Bible is not a historical document in any real sense - it is a collection of myths.
Jesus never advised anyone not to marry nor did he promote celibacy.
That rule came along 300 years after he died and it was for purely political reasons - nothing spiritual about it at all.
Celibacy has not been what shaped Western civilization; personal faith in Jesus Christ has done that. The Bible itself says, “To the unmarried and widows I say that it is good for them to remain single, as I am. But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. Better to marry than to burn with passion.” (1 Corinthians 7:8-9). Even Peter, the supposed first pope, was married. From the beginning, marriage has been the norm (though celibacy is a valid vocation as well); celibacy needs to be optional. That way, not only would a priest be able to speak empathetically to marital issues, but there would probably be far less sexual deviancy in the priesthood.
"To the unmarried and widows"
= οῖς ἀγάμοις καὶ ταῖς χήραις
= to the unmarried [men] and to the widows".
agamois = masculine = specifically unmarried men i.e. widowers.
Otherwise, it would not be necessary to refer separately to widows (cherais).
The implication is that Paul was a widower.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?
search=1%20Corinthians%207%3A8&version=THGNT
cf. NIV note, which is an integral part of the translation:
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%207%3A8&version=NIV
Sorry Daisy…
Clerical celibacy was not made a rule in the Roman Catholic Church until the First Lateran Council under Pope Calixtus II in AD 1123.
If you want to go back "two thousand years", then consider this from the Apostle Paul, who at the beginning of this passage directly claims the divine inspiration of the Holy Spirit as the source of this warning:
"The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.
If you point these things out to the brothers [brethren], you will be a good minister of Christ Jesus, nourished on the truths of the faith and of the good teaching that you have followed."
1 Timothy 4:1 - 6.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Timothy%204&version=NIV
"They forbid people to marry" = a rule of celibacy.
Who will teach this?
"hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron"
Where do they get the idea from?
"deceiving spirits and things taught by demons."
If you are so keen on clerical celibacy as to reject the letters of the Apostle Paul as holy scripture, then you would also need to reject other books of the Bible that endorse Paul as a divinely inspired apostle of Jesus: i.e. Acts (and by extension the Gospel of Luke) and 2 Peter (and by extension1 Peter and the Gospel of Mark).
Being a celibate committed single is just as worthy of a vocation as being married. We currently live in a grossly over-sexualized culture that is incapable of understanding and accepting a person's choice to commit to someone greater than humanity and eschew sexual relations with mere mortals. Daisy is spot on.
The requirement for priestly celibacy is one reason why gay priests and higher prelates have always been so common .
And many of them are NOT abstinent and have partners .
Brilliant, thoughtful and sympathetic. Thank you so much, I am a conservative Evangelical Christian and will send this piece to my devoted Catholic friends,
The original example of this was Jesus Himself. You also find celibacy in the Buddhist tradition among nuns and priests. It represents total commitment to faith. The RCC is right to maintain it, even if there are deviations from it. The deviations do not prove it's wrong; just that it's difficult, a test of faith. Though priests I have spoken to said it was not as difficult as the vow of obedience.
Celibacy is a distortion relevant only to the Catholic Church. It's a mistake to make such cases at a site like this. Restoring the West should move away from such extreme creeds. Worse still, it reminds that Jesus renounced his entire family, and had none of his own. Not a good advertisement or an example of conservative family values. The countless children that were abused were desecrated by Catholic priests. Celibacy is profoundly unnatural. The Apostles had families.
Paul was also a bad example, in every respect.
Restoring the West should emphasise universal values the West celebrates, rather than be apologetic for most particular ones that are so controversial and have caused much suffering.
I agree entirely with you, Daisy. Celibacy and a dozen other rules for men were given to men who had to freely choose to be "Alter Christus" and act "In persona Christi" Married Deacons, Teachers and Presbyters, were to be Chaste in that Heirarchy. Jesus the Lord the Christ, his Sinless inviolate Mother were persecuted and rejected from the beginning. Only a very small group of very few folks, "anawaim" poor humble, meek, led by a Jew from Bethlehem ofJudea (Joseph) living in exile incognito in "good for nothing" Nazareth lived daily in that " Heaven on Earth" God intends for all!
Here is this from the Apostle Paul on the appointment of bishops and deacons:
"Whoever aspires to be an overseer [i.e. bishop] desires a noble task. Now the overseer is to be above reproach, faithful to his wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 4 He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him, and he must do so in a manner worthy of full respect.6 He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil. 7 He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil’s trap.
8 In the same way, deacons[b] are to be worthy of respect, sincere, not indulging in much wine, and not pursuing dishonest gain. 9 They must keep hold of the deep truths of the faith with a clear conscience. 10 They must first be tested; and then if there is nothing against them, let them serve as deacons.
11 In the same way, the women [c: i.e. wives: Γυναῖκας] are to be worthy of respect, not malicious talkers but temperate and trustworthy in everything.
12 A deacon must be faithful to his wife [γυναικὸς] and must manage his children and his household well. 13 Those who have served well gain an excellent standing and great assurance in their faith in Christ Jesus."
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Timothy%203&version=NIV
cf.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Timothy%203&version=THGNT
Yes Thank you. That is "chapter 3" goes with Chapter 1 and 2 about Ministry in the Church Ecclesia Parochia Pastore. After Century 12 we begin to see the call was beyond and more than service- It was always to Imitate Christ- Alter Christus and In Person Christi- " becoming " a Transformed being
Imitate me a I Imitate Christ says St Paul.